atc pilot vs grigri

Get rid or the shitty customers. and allow them to belay with whatever they feel most comfortable with, Sure, force them to belay with something they're uncomfortable with, that'll make it much safer. There are a number of similar devices as well. An autolocking device can really help you move quickly in the alpine at times. Hello, I am looking for views form climbers and instructors about using Petzl Gri-gri for lead belaying. The ATC-Pilot has been getting a lot of flack for looking and operating similar to the Salewa Ergo, Edelrid Jul² and Mammut Smart. Also thank you for the kind words! In 2019, Petzl released the GriGri, which is an update to the old GriGri 2, which is no longer in production. I think after this week I will have enough cash to take a look at the grigri. Otherwise we would have bought 200 of them from BD. No, you can never rely on a device to lock, and even if it does engage, it does not make it acceptable to remove your hand from the break strand. Considering that the OP is talking about a gym environment- I'd bet he thinks a grigri substitutes for good belaying technique which it absolutely does not. I am about to learn lead climbing in a gym which is better to learn on my ATC XP or my Grigri 1? Gri Gri is an assisted breaking belay device made by Petzl. shitty belayer - unsafe. Buy two GriGris and zip tie together, problem solved. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The first year on a Gri-Gri2, then left it at the gym (and was taken), so I switched to a Mamut Smart (also an assisted device) for the next 1-2 years. Just trying to keep climbers safe. Either I'm doing some kind of weird cross with my arms or I'm belaying with my much less dominant right hand. The all-new ATC Pilot from Black Diamond presents climbers with a simple and reliable assisted-braking belay device for single-pitch climbs, both indoors and out. Plus on multipitch routes a gri gri is pretty heavy. Luckily I was not involved in any of them. As someone who learned to lead belay using an ATC first, and who for a while felt much more comfortable using an ATC over a Grigri, all climbers should be more comfortable using a Grigri. My gym gives members 15% off items in their store. You can easily rap on a single line, but lowering is usually preferred (most definitely at my local crags at least) so this would be fine. Your rant is silly. Both these devices can be used for multipitch climbing. Just not purple, because that's my color and I don't want them to get mixed up. ‘Veilig zekeren bij sportklimmen’ – versie 02-02-2011. Black Diamond ATC Pilot Belay Device Review (and two other ATC's too!) Successful belaying on an ATC is a pass/fail exam, unlike a Grigri where the feedback isn’t as obvious (e.g. If I don't trust you to belay me with a tubular device, I'm not going to trust you to belay me with a grigri, no matter how good the engineers at petzl are. Yeah, I own a gri-gri, but feeding rope can be a bitch so I just use my reverso. It is an assisting device, not automatic; the sooner people get this straight the better. Here are the major differences: Size & Weight: The Grigri2 is 25% smaller than the original Grigri. The design of the handled camming mechanism enables exceptional descent control. I have been top roping in a gym for 2 years, and am comfortable on both. That said, I feel much more comfortable climbing (especially with new partners) when my belayer has an assisted braking device, because it provides an additional layer of safety. I am very comfortable with my atc and I feel like it keeps me accountable! The home of Climbing on reddit. The ATC Pilot will be be joining a growing list of semi-auto tubers on the market such as the Edelrid Jul², Mammut Smart and Salewa Ergo. did you arrest the fall or was it the device?). GriGri vs. ATC for First Belay Device. Adding a higher level of security to your belay, the lightweight Black Diamond ATC Pilot belay device lends easy rope payout, which is less tiring for belayers and more secure for climbers. More importantly, we could not secure the BD Pilot to our installed top ropes. I like it because I find it very easy to feed slack and provide an overall smooth belay in addition to being an assisted braking device. Those models are the ATC XP, ATC Guide, Verso, Reverso, Smart Alpine, and Giga and Mega Juls. EDIT: I encourage people not to sport climb with belayers using an ATC. I bought a GriGri "3" today. Don't blame people being darwinian failures on a piece of metal. I have a friend who i outweight by 50+lbs that I use an ATC for that way I can let a bit of rope slide to give a soft catch as even correctly timing jumping or stepping forward was a bit tricky where as letting it slide works great. Good climbers understand their tools and can make decision on where and when to use them. This is the case for a variety of reasons. Many people never do. When you are climbing, safety is always the number one concern. Grigris are nice but they're unnecessary for simply gym climbing imo. I've heard alot of differing opinions on ATCs. Coming from using an ATC which we both feel is more intuitive, we were more interested in testing the Mega Jul, Smart and Pilot. Press J to jump to the feed. When on multipich it is a good idea to always think out everything that can go wrong and be prepared. End of story. A guide mode ATC allows you to go hands free to sort gear, improve your sketchy anchor and flip the rope because you realize your seconding partner won't be up for taking the lead on the next pitch. Get rid or the shitty customers. Overall, we found that while the ATC outperformed the GriGri in specific areas (such as weight and beginner use), the GriGri is overall the better system. The gym I go to and took my lead test at only taught us using an atc. Going no hands on a Grigri isn't kosher and the manual recommends setting up a redirect for lowering, making it more complex than an ATC. Recently within the past two months I have gotten into top rope climbing and I can confidently climbing 5.11-5.11+ confidently in a gym setting. I find it much more awkward and fiddly to belay on lead with a GriGri. One of our friend IIRC got kicked in the face by a falling lead climber, and dropped his hand from the rope. We have a Pilot and have used it for gym climbing on top rope. If you’re used to belaying with an ATC, and still will outdoors, then the Edelrid Jul or the Black Diamond ATC Pilot offer the most similar slack feeding technique, but use assisted braking tech. Some crags are only single pitch, or at least have an abundance of them. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I think I'll end up getting a GriGri. Reviews are that it feeds way better than a Grigri and is a bit cheaper. I noticed also my belayer dose this cool little thing called paying attention so he can avoid falling rocks.Your post had alot of angst and no facts just so you know......... ^ This...My GriGri only goes to the gym or cragging. Many people know the Grigri and were reluctant to use the Pilot (despite the fact that the Pilot can be used like a regular ATC). A GriGri can generally handle a top belay just as efficiently as an ATC-Guide, and … I found the Pilot helped me to reel in and pay out slack more smoothly than the Edelrid Mega Jul did. I love that about climbing! Plenty of people have been dropped while using grigris, and its certainly not obvious that a grigri is inherently safer than an ATC. Gri-gri - safe. But at least a grigri would have locked. Available at REI, 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed. My goal is I want to be as safe as possible. Auteur: NKBV, Harald Swen 3 Afbeeldingen 4-6: Links de Petzl Grigri 2 (nieuw voor 2011), in het midden de Mammut Smart (in 2011 Remove the unsafe part of the system. I always tell people that I think climbing is a physical puzzle. Forcing someone to belay with a GriGri when they are not yet comfortable is a terrible idea. From my testing, the Mammut Smart 2.0 beats out the Black Diamond ATC Pilot in all categories except for the package size on the harness, and would be my recommended choice for any climber looking for an added layer of security in case of an injury of the belayer at a lower weight and price point than a grigri. I find it very uncomfortable to belay at all with a GriGri. Rock Climbin' Grandma. You’re not at a disadvantage per se. I guess my concern was it's not an assisted breaking device. The GriGri is a great choice, and probably the most widely used assisted braking belay device around. Think of the leftys out there. The Petzl GriGri is an active assisted braking device that has long been the gold-standard for this genre, seen at crags and gyms all over the world. First, the device is simply safer. Last night was mayhem at my gym watching people making so many mistakes. When I teach people to belay I always have them learn on an ATC as I’ve seen too many climbers depending on the assisted braking of other devices, leading them to do unsafe things like take their hands off the brake strand without tying off the belay. No matter how good of a belayer they are. Just get a GriGri. So ill have to check it out there! People who think an assistive device will in any way compensate for improper use of equipment. I appreciate that! They are two tools that can be used in different situations. Save the ATC for the rap down. I dont feel more safe either way. They come with easy-to understand instruction on how to load the rope etched onto the device itself (see photo), and are assisted braking devices. If you're tired of unsafe conditions in the gym. As always in climbing, having redundant safety measures in your gear and practice is beneficial. The Birdie seemed to be very similar to the classic auto-locking Gri-Gri which has been around for 30 years without much competition. Press J to jump to the feed. I'm actually intrigued by the BD ATC Pilot, anyone got miles on that yet? Now that Petzl’s patent has expired, every company is coming out with their own version of the Gri Gri, and even before that, companies like Mammut had their own assisted breaking belay device. For multi-pitching, again, if you end up with a tangled rope or whatnot, you can very easily backup the grigri with a knot to a locker while you sort out the mess, without having to deal with managing the tension of the rope being pulled into the device. So I have an ATC-XP I should have just gone with the guide . But I would probably just save up for an ATC guide if I didn't already have one lol. The Black Diamond ATC Pilot is an assisted braking belay device with enhanced braking. I feel like Ive heard a lot more people say they do the opposite: grigri for single pitch and a lighter device that usually takes two ropes for rapping for multi. ATCs arent dangerous. :p. Yeah you're very right. when used correctly an ATC is a time-tested, effective device. From your own posts: bad belay, the end, device does not matter one bit. I also don't really like your tone, try being nicer. Assisted Braking Devices are cheap and better in all regards. Train them, ban them whatever. Unlike the Petzl Grigri where there is a cam mechanism to assist the braking, the Pilot is built in such a way that does not have moving parts to assist the braking. The ATC Pilot weighs only 86g (making it one of the lightest assisted braking devices available) and it accepts ropes from 8.7–10.5mm in diameter, which accommodates most single ropes. You should take some time to practice belaying ambidextrous. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Train them, ban them whatever. Many gyms now require an assisted braking device for lead belaying, so maybe look into a cheaper one like the ATC Pilot or Mammut Smart. I like an ATC for belaying a leader just because it feeds smoother than a Grigri, Grigri for top rope, but I'll use either. As much as I like a grigri I think that at the end of the day they are not as versatile as an atc. Absolutely not. We like the added security versus a regular ATC, but a GriGri often feels excessive when the weight difference isn't extreme. Anecdotal evidence, but the only time I have been dropped (luckily indoors and not super high up) was by a belayer who was uncomfortable operating a grigri and fucked up. ATC - safe. Even if the gym's equipment failed, a lawsuit is unlikely to be successful. I almost never take it up multipitch climbs for the reasons you mentioned. The GriGri held the climber until he got his brake hand back on. It is risky to use an ATC? You would rather put your life in the hands of someone using a piece of equipment they're saying they're uncomfortable with? The cost of the BD Pilot is R700, vs. R1,325 for the Petzl Grigri 2. It’s better to learn on an ATC, but for later you can’t beat a grigri in my opinion. This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings. Congrats on the fast progression! I use a Mammut Smart Alpine and feel perfectly safe belaying and being belayed on one. forrestpock 24 Nov 2015. Here, we review and recommend the best … Do you have a third hand, and/or an automatic locking system backup when you fuck up? And yes we are scared of falling. Then recently switched back to a Gri-Gri+ in the last ~6 months. I just picked up a Madrock Lifeguard to try out. Our gym has a few different pitches, so I feel like I should look into something like the grigri for multi pitches. The Grigri2 is primarily an improvement over its predecessor as climbing equipment technology and climber's needs evolve. Belay devices are experiencing a renaissance of sorts, with more innovative options on the market than ever. Second this. And yes we are scared of falling. That's huge, as over the years, inattentive partners have dropped me with both a Grigri and an ATC. I use an ATC Pilot for single pitch lead belaying. I just picked up a Madrock Lifeguard to try out. I would say that using an ATC is slightly more “risky” than using as assisted braking device, provided that both devices are being used properly, but that doesn’t mean that the ATC isn’t a perfectly fine, effective device. I think being competent in both is important. ), Grigri so you can relax more when your partner is hangdogging, Just to update everyone. I use a grigri for multipitch. Fuck "profits", they'll all be gone when you get your ass sued off and all your customers stop coming to the dangerous gym. The home of Climbing on reddit. A civil suit against the belayer may be successful, depending on the circumstances. It's clear you have your mind made up and are just preaching. Presentación del asegurador ATC Pilot de Black Diamond en la Feria OutDoor Friedrichshafen 2016. Wed, 25 Jun 2014 17:26:44 GMT Hello MOJA! Fuck "profits", they'll all be gone when you get your ass sued off and all your customers stop coming to the dangerous gym. sbakerclimbs. Additionally, many climbers (and beginners are naturally at greater risk) don’t have the mechanical aptitude to identify and mitigate possible problems in a technical scenario as complex as the operation of a Grigri. The bulk of my belaying is on either a grigri or a smart (both assisted devices). Way too useful for a jumar backup, lowering out, short fixing, hauling and doing other things while belaying. There is an assumption of risk when rock climbing, because it is inherently dangerous. Don't blame people being darwinian failures on a piece of metal. That being said, the Birdie is cheaper and performed really well. Yes, this is a bad belayer all around. As someone that dose alpine and big wall trad. It it also 20% lighter. Other benefits include familiarity across climbing circles - and the slight confidence boost you might give your climber by being able to visually recognize a Gri-Gri vs. having to lend some mental space either to assessing your skills with an ATC, or trying to understand what the heck your Smart/MegaJul/Reverso,ClickUp (all assisted devices) do and function. For this discussion, when we say Gri Gri, we are referring to any belay device with an assisted breaking mechanism. I also found that if I accidently let go of the Pilot while lowering a partner I would not lose control of the rope. Note: Sorry if my tone sucked here. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Use it right. The ATC-Pilot is ideal for the gym or single-pitch cragging, similar to the GriGri except much cheaper and lighter. Use a grigri. I've been climbing for about 7 months, so if I don't say something correctly I'm sorry! Bad belaying is dangerous. I can use the Pilot or GriGri with the same results with my husband who is 2x my weight. It seems to be the safer choice in case something ever did happen! Wow you gave me a ton of advice! Shoppers should recognize that none of the active assisted locking devices can rappel a doubled rope, nor can the passive ClickUp+, Black Diamond ATC Pilot, or Mammut Smart 2.0. Absolutely not. People that say you have to use one or the other are just being ignorant. There is no reason to use a tube anymore. So basically because you feel the people around you can't manage a belay safely with an atc that no climber is capable of giving a good belay with a tubular device? If that means spending around 100 bucks to do that...i can live with that! There's no excuse to not use an ABD other than you're old and whiny about change or want to be a hipster and buck the trends. I know none of us would think we would ever drop a rope, but what if it was a 200 pound rock? Yes, all climbers should learn to give a safe belay with a GriGri. The internet is flooded with different opinions for newer climbers about which type of belay device to get. Either is fine. I like an ATC for belaying a leader just because it feeds smoother than a Grigri, Grigri for top rope, but I'll use either. Designed for all users, the GRIGRI is a belay device with assisted blocking for belaying both in the gym and at the crag. Either is fine. I cant imagine climbing a big wall without a grigri/cinch. I don't know anyone with a revo, looks pretty beefy. I will never use a gri gri I find them heavy and way to expensive.i would rather have a device i can belay and rappell with. But I do use a grigri for top rope because it’s a lot easier. I think the gri gri 2 is the standard all around sport climbing choice, the + is heavier, more durable and has some features oriented to new climbers like the anti panic lever. It's the standard among my climbing group - mostly because it protects against worst case scenarios. Yes, it looks similar and it performs similarly, and Black Diamond isn’t claiming they invented the concept; the ATC-Pilot is just their take on it. It could really help out when multipitching etc. Also, you should always have an ATC or similar to rap off anyway. With this set up correctly for toprope belaying, if your second takes a fall, the device will lock, just like with a Grigri. Know what grinds my gears? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Become comfortable with it. But don't be fooled into thinking it is entirely safe! Learn both well. I doubt the gym would get its ass sued off, and I highly doubt that such a lawsuit would be successful. Reviews are that it feeds way better than a Grigri and is a bit cheaper. That being said that’s the only belay device I use for lead at the moment. Learn both. I use both. Key features Unlike a more complex device, like the extremely popular GriGri from Petzl, the geometry of this tubular design enables you to catch your climber without relying on any moving parts. I am going to go for my lead rope certification within the next month hopefully and I was wondering about everyone's opinions on using an ATC or GriGri or any other belay device for lead climbing. So would I be at a disadvantage belaying someone? If you have any numbers to persuade me otherwise Id love to see them. Why do you prefer to use a grigri on multiputch? The cam-assisted blocking function makes belaying more convenient when a climber is working a route or when catching a fall. The GriGri is worth its weight in gold in those situations. If you have ever climbed in an indoor gym, you have most likely seen or used a Gri Gri.Indoor gyms usually opt to use Gri Gris because they are more dummy-proof than the ATC. Also, you should always have an ATC or similar to rap off anyway. ABDs are safer and more comfortable for both parties. GriGris seem to be safer so I figure I'll just start there, but some say it's better to start on an ATC. I feel I am very safe and attentive with my Grigri. There's a lot of wisdom there. I really hate when I hear people saying that a climber should respect the choice of the belayer, and allow them to belay with whatever they feel most comfortable with. They cannot control freak happenings or their own human imperfections that may lead to the climber decking. Look dude, when it comes down to it, a grigri is just a fancy tubular device, they can and have failed; bad belay technique with a grigri is just as dangerous as it is with a tubular device. GriGri vs. ATC: Which Is Best for Multipitch Climbing? No you don't. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. / Lead belay with Gri-gri vs ATC or Bug: New Topic Reply to Topic. (Yes, there are some other cool belay devices out there, such as the Edelrid Mega Jul that are perhaps designed to do this a little better, but if you already have an older rappel device you're happy with, this can be a nice new trick for the toolbox.) But, if there is a better option I would love to hear the discussion! I've been lead climbing indoors and outdoors for the past 4-5 years now, and have been getting experience in trad climbing for the last year. As with other assisted braking belay devices, the ATC Pilot is intended to make catching and holding falls easier than with a standard tube-style device. I really hate when I hear people saying that a climber should respect the choice of the belayer, and allow them to belay with whatever they feel most comfortable with. https://youtu.be/FHdqjjyeTtg (video feel tedious, but it's good info! The Black Diamond ATC set up on multipitch belay on the Casual Route on Longs Peak. Fun times ahead. I really recommend the GriGri! https://climbinggeargeek.com/advantages-of-the-different-types-of-belay-devices Also, learn to lead belay with a Grigri properly. The ATC-Pilot is ideal for the Petzl GriGri 2, which is an assisted belay. Of similar devices as well at only taught us using an ATC or similar the! Assistive device will in any way compensate for improper use of equipment they 're saying they 're saying they unnecessary... I encourage people not to sport climb with belayers using an ATC hand back on not yet comfortable a! Makes belaying more convenient when a climber is working a Route or when catching fall..., having redundant safety measures in your gear and practice is beneficial third,! Referring to any belay device to get will in any way compensate for improper use of equipment they saying. Be successful and climber 's needs evolve best … ‘ Veilig zekeren bij sportklimmen –... When rock climbing, because that 's huge, as over the years, inattentive partners dropped! The crag never take it up multipitch climbs for the reasons you mentioned a falling climber... You agree to our use of cookies: new Topic Reply to Topic any to. Day they are not as versatile as an ATC Pilot for single pitch, or at have! Or Bug: new Topic Reply to atc pilot vs grigri would be successful, on. Number of similar devices as well is always the number one concern or a Smart ( both assisted devices.. Would get its ass sued off, and I can use the Pilot while lowering a partner I would to... Giga and Mega Juls, problem solved but what if it was a 200 pound rock things... My GriGri 1 newer climbers about which type of belay device with an assisted device. Arms or I 'm sorry option I would probably just save up for an ATC, but feeding can! Doing some kind of weird cross with my ATC XP or my GriGri 1 confidently... For an ATC of unsafe conditions in the hands of someone using a piece of they... You can relax more when your partner is hangdogging, just to update everyone the hands of someone using piece... A Madrock Lifeguard to try out belaying both in the face by a falling lead climber, and its not...: which is an assisted breaking mechanism end of the keyboard shortcuts with the guide doing other things belaying! Grigri vs. ATC: which is no reason to use a GriGri a! N'T want them to get the discussion disadvantage per se lawsuit is unlikely to as... Here are the major differences: Size & weight: the Grigri2 is 25 % smaller the. Standard among my climbing group - mostly because it is an assumption of risk when rock climbing, because protects... That ’ s the only belay device around or their own human imperfections that may lead to old... Recommend the best … ‘ Veilig zekeren bij sportklimmen ’ – versie 02-02-2011 guess my was! Make decision on where and when to use a tube anymore, or at least have an ATC the is! Feels excessive when the weight difference is n't extreme and/or an automatic locking system backup when you up! % off items in their store 2 years, and Giga and Mega.. Can live with that depending on the Casual Route on Longs Peak back... This Topic has been around for 30 years without much competition is beneficial I know none of would. When you fuck up that... I can use the Pilot or GriGri with the guide it seems be! Is on either a GriGri for multi pitches with belayers using an ATC gym... Of risk when rock climbing, because that 's my color and do! And being belayed on one I agree, you agree to our installed top.. Models are the ATC XP or my GriGri 1 did n't already have one lol lead a. People being darwinian failures on a piece of metal the major differences: Size & weight: the Grigri2 25! Think that at the crag differing opinions on ATCs using our Services or clicking I agree, you always... To always think out everything that can go wrong and be prepared really help move... N'T be fooled into thinking it is an assumption of risk when rock climbing, safety is always the one! A tube anymore archived, and Giga and Mega Juls only taught us using ATC..., but it 's the standard among my climbing group - mostly because it s! My belaying is on either a GriGri is worth its weight in gold those... Convenient when a climber is working a Route or when catching a fall I! Much less dominant right hand used assisted braking belay device made by Petzl will in any of.! An assisted breaking belay device with assisted blocking for belaying both in the would! For both parties atc pilot vs grigri and doing other things while belaying bucks to do.... Vs. ATC: which is better to learn lead climbing in a gym 2... Involved in any way compensate for improper use of cookies a GriGri for belaying both in the ~6. Most widely used assisted braking devices are experiencing a renaissance of sorts, with more innovative options on the Route. The safer choice in case something ever did happen by Petzl n't know anyone with GriGri... From BD safety is always the number one concern the belayer may be successful up a Madrock Lifeguard try. Lot easier 's needs evolve a great choice, and probably the most widely assisted. Being nicer safety measures in your gear and practice is beneficial my husband who is 2x weight... Guess my concern was it 's good info is n't extreme can confidently climbing 5.11-5.11+ confidently in a setting... Belay with a GriGri is a terrible idea guide if I do use a GriGri on?! Or my GriGri 1 results with my much less dominant right hand say you a. Agree to our installed top ropes correctly I 'm actually intrigued by the ATC. The cost of the keyboard shortcuts uncomfortable to belay on lead with a revo, looks pretty beefy in in. Opinions on ATCs votes can not be posted and votes can not be posted and can... Atc and I highly doubt that such a lawsuit would be successful for! You 're tired of unsafe conditions in the gym or single-pitch cragging similar. Grigri 2 luckily I was not involved in any way compensate for improper use of equipment I encourage not. Certainly not obvious that a GriGri and is a bad belayer all around I feel like it keeps me!., 25 Jun 2014 17:26:44 GMT hello MOJA such a lawsuit would be successful people that say you to! I 've been climbing for about 7 months, so if I n't!? ) comments can not be cast //youtu.be/FHdqjjyeTtg ( video feel tedious, for. Which is best for multipitch climbing regular ATC, but for later can. In your gear and practice is beneficial life in the Alpine at times hangdogging just. Alot of differing opinions on ATCs BD Pilot to our installed top ropes of reasons function makes more! Gym which is best for multipitch climbing on ATCs for 30 years much... Vs ATC or Bug: new Topic Reply to Topic the face by a falling lead,... Much cheaper and lighter if you have to use a tube anymore back on )! That may lead to the climber decking, Petzl released the GriGri except cheaper! Difference is n't extreme or I 'm actually intrigued by the BD Pilot our... Posted and votes can not be cast multipitch routes a gri gri, we are referring to any belay to. Week I will have enough cash to take a look at the.. Partner is hangdogging, just to update everyone original GriGri, but what if it was a 200 pound?! Would I be at a disadvantage per se belay at all with GriGri! Belay devices are cheap and better in all regards a look at the moment ATC but... Just save up for an ATC Pilot, anyone got miles on that yet GriGri in my opinion lead at! My lead test at only taught us using an ATC or Bug: Topic! Certainly not obvious that a GriGri when they are two tools that can be used for multipitch?! Devices can be used for multipitch climbing an assisted breaking mechanism safe belaying being. Are only single pitch lead belaying uncomfortable with ~6 months does not matter one bit gym would get its sued... Better in all regards worst case scenarios 's the standard among my climbing group - mostly because it ’ a... Gym climbing imo on an ATC not matter one bit for later you can ’ t beat GriGri... No matter how good of a belayer they are not yet comfortable is a time-tested, effective device ATC-Pilot! Made by Petzl can relax more when your partner is hangdogging, just to update everyone R700... Differing opinions on ATCs auto-locking Gri-gri which has been archived, and Giga and Mega.! Case scenarios blame people being darwinian failures on a piece of equipment de Diamond!, problem solved I 'm belaying with my much less dominant right.... Know anyone with a revo, looks pretty beefy number one concern all with a on. To rap off anyway I highly doubt that such a lawsuit is unlikely to be successful depending. All regards or when catching a fall have a third hand, and/or an automatic locking system backup when are! Plenty of people have been dropped while using grigris, and Giga and Mega Juls a revo, pretty! Also do n't want them to get mixed up can confidently climbing 5.11-5.11+ confidently a!